Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V16_4/V16NO459.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1993-07-13 | 26KB

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 05:00:08
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V16 #459
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Thu, 15 Apr 93       Volume 16 : Issue 459

Today's Topics:
                  "Temporary orbits" for Mars moons?
                  Alaska Pipeline and Space Station!
                 Apollo Training in Iceland (2 msgs)
                   Big Cost Tag, Attention Given..
              Clementine Science Team Selected (3 msgs)
          Comet in Temporary Orbit Around Jupiter? (3 msgs)
                 Did any DC-X gifs show up? (3 msgs)
                     MACH 25 landing site bases?
                   Mars Observer Update - 04/14/93
                    Orbital RepairStation (2 msgs)
                        Ron's Space Calendar?
                          Shuttle Telemetry
                           Voyager pictures
             What if the USSR had reached the Moon first?
            What Minerals are Cheaper on Mars? than earth?

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 17:42:37 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: "Temporary orbits" for Mars moons?
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (James Thomas Green) writes:

> Is the "temporary orbit" theory accounting for the comet about
> Jupiter similar to how Demios and Phobos got captured about
> Mars?  If not, what is different between the Comet at Jupiter
> and the Martian moons?
>
>

The Martian satellites are in highly circular, co-planar orbits.  If they were
indeed "captured" from somewhere else, it presumably happened during an epoch
in which there was still lots of viscosity (unaccreted gas and dust) in the
near vicinity of Mars.

Ben

------------------------------

Date: 12 Apr 93 07:25:46 GMT
From: Ralph Buttigieg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Alaska Pipeline and Space Station!
Newsgroups: sci.space

Original to: [e-mail]
G'day [e-mail]

07 Apr 01 17:49, [e-mail] wrote to All:

 pdc> Well, don't go writing about how it's impossible to get multi-year
 pdc> funding proposals.  Write about how it is difficult and rare.  And
having
 pdc> worked on several multi-year projects,  i can see why the government
 pdc> doesn't like them.   THese were military projects that were screwed
 pdc> from word one,  But instead, they went till the money ran out.
 pdc> The taxpayers took it in the shorts.  Multi year,  means some form of
 pdc> congressional review.

This should not apply to a commercial Space Station, which is what the
original thread was about. Rent would only be paid on utilisation. No
station, not rent.


ta

Ralph

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: VULCAN'S WORLD - Sydney Australia [phone]  3:713/6
(3:713/635)

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 1993 10:36:18 -0400
From: Pat <[e-mail]>
Subject: Apollo Training in Iceland
Newsgroups: sci.space

Yeah, If they really wanted deolation, they didn't have to go further
then the SOuth Bronx :-)  Or the West side of Chicago.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 18:22:02 GMT
From: Dave Stephenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Apollo Training in Iceland
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:

>In article <stephens.734725576@ngis> [e-mail] (Dave Stephenson) writes:
>>Some of the Astronauts trained near Sudbury in Ontario for that reason.
>>(The Nickel smelters wiped out the plant life down wind at the time)

>Actually, they were in Sudbury not because of the desolation caused by
>the smelters, but because the Sudbury nickel deposits are at the bottom
>of a very large meteorite crater.

 they were in Iceland, presumably it was for training on volcanic
>geological formations, which are everywhere in Iceland.

>If they wanted superficial resemblance to moonscapes, they need not have
>gone so far afield.  Trips like that were motivated by the geological
>history of the regions, not by surface appearance.

I remember the press releases at the time (never trust what you read in
the press), which I was reading in England, all mentioned about the
'lunar landscapes' around Sudbury. NASA supported research in Iceland
to study the volcanic conditions and how they would affect the Apollo
missions, but I do not know if they sent astronauts there.

--
Dave Stephenson
Geodetic Survey of Canada
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 09:31:37 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Big Cost Tag, Attention Given..
Newsgroups: sci.space

I know one thing that is interesting.. At least in the establishment of space
exploration and usage that unless its new and has a big cost, they don't want
to deal with it.. or even think of the idea..

If it has anything to do with recycling, repair (other than as a publicity
stunt), retrieve (same as for repair), or make it cheaper or use material
already in orbit, the establishment does not even want to talk to ya..

Is that because the establishment is having to much time with their cushy
contracts and their $7 a spoon cost, similar to the Air Farces habits (and
other military establishments)..

Basically what I am saying is there is to many kick backs, and cost over runs
in the US military and its daughter (to a point) agencies, such as NASA..

I have no proof other than a feel of what I say. Am I speaking bull or is there
really proof..

Let you be the judge!

==
Michael Adams, [e-mail] -- I'm not high, just jacked

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 13:08:53 GMT
From: Dave Stephenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Clementine Science Team Selected
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro

[e-mail] (Eric H Seale) writes:


>Basically, SDIO wants to test out new sensors for potential anti-missile
>use -- international treaties won't allow you to test them on satellites
>(the idea of testing them on natural bodies is pretty much a treaty
>loophole).

>Eric Seale

Not quite. THe sensors are anti-missile sensors and would have been tested
against sounding (non-orbital) rockets, which after all are much more like
missiles. But, SDIO has had bad luck with its sounding rockets, and of
course even high appogee balistic rockets do not stay around all that long.
The cost of replacing the sounding rockets with a longer and more
 scientifically interesting mission and using the Moon and an
asteroid as mock targets was fairly small.

Remember the first government scientist in the British Empire was
the Astronomer Royal, who was paid 100 pounds sterling, (less 10
pounds for taxes, bring your own instruments) from the Department
of Ordinance Budget (i.e. the military). Flamsteed House (the original
RGO) was built out of Army Surplus Scrap ( A gate house at the Tower of
London ?), and paid for by the sale of time expired gunpowder (not
to exceed 500 pounds sterling).

This sort of co-operation goes back a long way. I can not stand
whores that pass themselves off as virgins!

--
Dave Stephenson
Geodetic Survey of Canada
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 14:56:06 GMT
From: Nick Haines <[e-mail]>
Subject: Clementine Science Team Selected
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro

In article <stephens.734792933@ngis> [e-mail] (Dave Stephenson) writes:

   Remember the first government scientist in the British Empire was
   the Astronomer Royal, who was paid [...] from the Department
   of Ordinance Budget (i.e. the military). Flamsteed House (the original
   RGO) was built out of Army Surplus Scrap ( A gate house at the Tower of
   London ?), and paid for by the sale of time expired gunpowder [...]

At the time, astronomy was vital to the military, in that navigation
and cartography were of primary impoortance to the military, and good
cartography was impossible without good astronomy.

The relevance these daysis somewhat less obvious.

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 15:25:31 GMT
From: Henry Spencer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Clementine Science Team Selected
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Eric H Seale) writes:
>Basically, SDIO wants to test out new sensors for potential anti-missile
>use -- international treaties won't allow you to test them on satellites...

Nonsense, SDIO has run sensor tests against satellites repeatedly.  There
is no treaty prohibition against it.
--
All work is one man's work.             | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
                    - Kipling           |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 09:26:31 GMT
From: Mark Brader <[e-mail]>
Subject: Comet in Temporary Orbit Around Jupiter?
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary

So how close would the comet have gotten to Jupiter on the pass that
put it into temporary orbit, and how far is it likely to get from
Jupiter before it makes its escape?

Just for comparison, I note that the permanent satellites fall into
four groups of four.  The innermost ones have orbits with semimajor
axes from 128,000 to 222,000 km (80,000 to 177,000 miles); the big
Galilean ones are from 422,000 to 1,880,000 km (262,000 to 1,170,000
miles); then there is a group at 11.1 to 11.7 million km (6.90 to 7.27
million miles), and another group at 21.2 to 23.7 million km (13.2 to
14.1 million miles), with the last group orbiting retrograde and having
orbital periods around 2 years.  So how does the comet's orbit scale
against these?
--
Mark Brader        For I do not believe that the stars are spread over a
Toronto            spherical surface at equal distances from one center;
utzoo!sq!msb        I suppose their distances from us to vary so much that
[e-mail]        some are 2 or 3 times as remote as others.   -- Galileo

This article is in the public domain.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 15:31:49 GMT
From: Henry Spencer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Comet in Temporary Orbit Around Jupiter?
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark Brader) writes:
>Just for comparison, I note that the permanent satellites fall into
>four groups of four... [last] group at 21.2 to 23.7 million km (13.2 to
>14.1 million miles), with the last group orbiting retrograde and having
>orbital periods around 2 years.  So how does the comet's orbit scale
>against these?

Wouldn't be surprised if it was comparable to the last group.  Those outer
retrograde satellites are widely suspected to be captured asteroids, and
they may be somewhat temporary on a geological time scale.
--
All work is one man's work.             | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
                    - Kipling           |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 1993 15:51 UT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Comet in Temporary Orbit Around Jupiter?
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mark Brader) writes...
>
>So how close would the comet have gotten to Jupiter on the pass that
>put it into temporary orbit, and how far is it likely to get from
>Jupiter before it makes its escape?

The answer to all of these questions is we don't know yet.  We don't know for
sure if the comet is in a temporary orbit.  The comet was
only recently discovered and after it had made its Jupiter flyby.  There are
too few data points to accurately compute its trajectory at the present time.
It will take several weeks of observations to collect enough points.  This
is further complicated by the fact that the comet is in several pieces.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Being cynical never helps
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | to correct the situation
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | and causes more aggravation
                                                  | instead.

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 1993 17:18:20 GMT
From: "Chris W. Johnson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Did any DC-X gifs show up?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> Douglas R Fils, [e-mail]
writes:
>     Did any GIFS show up from the roll out of the DC-X?
> I recall someone mentioning that they might be able to get some
> and I have been away from the net for a few days and thought
> I might have missed any notice.

That was me. The answer is no, the images haven't shown-up yet. I expect
that both of the people who were kind enough to offer images are still
getting their film developed and the results mailed, digitized, etc.

Nonetheless, as soon as I get the images, I'll make them available in
the pub/delta-clipper directory of bongo.cc.utexas.edu. Someone, either
me or the owners of the pictures will probably post a note to sci.space
when this happens.

If anyone else out there has images or info on the Delta Clipper project
they'd like to make available, let me know, or just ftp them directly
into bongo's pub/delta-clipper/incoming directory.

Thanks to all.

----Chris

Chris W. Johnson

Internet:   [e-mail]
UUCP:       {husc6|uunet}!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!chrisj
CompuServe: >INTERNET:[e-mail]
AppleLink:  [e-mail]@internet#

...wishing the Delta Clipper team success in the upcoming DC-X flight tests.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 18:20:31 GMT
From: Douglas R Fils <[e-mail]>
Subject: Did any DC-X gifs show up?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <1qgiah$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Diaspar Virtual Reality Network) writes:
>The rollout was great and I got lots of great shots. I attended
>the press briefing and got shots of the DC-Y model, too. All
>in 3D
>
>David H. Mitchell
>
>
David,
    Are you still planing on scanning these and posting them
somewhere?  Hope Hope Hope.  If you could that would be GREAT.

Thanks for report of the rollout as well
take care
Doug



--

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 1993 19:21:02 GMT
From: Diaspar Virtual Reality Network <[e-mail]>
Subject: Did any DC-X gifs show up?
Newsgroups: sci.space

Will get them as soon as possible and will put them in the
ftp sites that have been offered for use.

David H. Mitchell

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 19:24:00
From: Earle Durboraw <[e-mail]>
Subject: MACH 25 landing site bases?
Newsgroups: sci.space

Hmmm...is the shuttle an aircraft?  Its re-entry speed is close to that.


 * Origin: *AmeriComm*, 214/373-7314. Dallas'Info Source. (1:124/6507)

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 1993 20:36 UT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mars Observer Update - 04/14/93
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary

Forwarded from:
PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE
JET PROPULSION LABORATORY
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
PASADENA, CALIF. 91109. TELEPHONE [phone]

                  MARS OBSERVER MISSION STATUS
                         April 14, 1993

     All spacecraft subsystems are performing well as Mars
Observer heads for a rendezvous with the Red Planet on Aug. 24,
1993.

     The spacecraft experienced a slight attitude change on
Friday, April 9, when an internal software test failed and
erroneously indicated that inertial reference had been lost. When
this happened, on-board fault protection initiated a "contingency
mode," which automatically switched spacecraft communications
from the high-gain to the low-gain antenna.  Data rates and power
consumption were reduced, and the solar arrays were repositioned
to a more favorable orientation toward the sun.

     The incident has occurred before and ground controllers
understand it.  No hardware problems are involved and the
spacecraft performed flawlessly in switching to the contingency
mode.  A command sequence to modify on-board software will be
uplinked in late May.  Meanwhile, the spacecraft was returned to
normal cruise configuration late Tuesday, April 13.  A
magnetometer calibration sequence that would have occurred during
the recovery period was postponed until May.

     The camera team began a series of narrow-angle and wide-
angle imaging tests on Tuesday afternoon, and photographed
Jupiter while it was in the camera's field of view Tuesday night.
The camera tests were executed by non-stored sequence commands
that were closely coordinated by instrument, spacecraft and
ground operations teams.

     The gravitational wave experiment using Mars Observer and
two other interplanetary spacecraft -- Galileo and Ulysses --
also concluded this week, on Monday, April 12, at about 1:20 a.m.
Pacific Daylight Time.  The radio science team will spend a
minimum of six months analyzing the data.  Results may be
forthcoming by fall or winter 1993.

     Today the Mars Observer spacecraft is about 25 million
kilometers (15 million miles) from Mars and 178 million
kilometers (111 million miles) from Earth. The spacecraft is
traveling at a velocity of about 8,200 kilometers per hour (5,000
miles per hour) with respect to Mars.

                             #####
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Being cynical never helps
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | to correct the situation
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | and causes more aggravation
                                                  | instead.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 15:28:34 GMT
From: Henry Spencer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Orbital RepairStation
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael Nielsen) writes:
>    It seems to me that so many billion of dollars are floating
>around in orbit around the earth...
>It seems like a huge opportunity for the development for an orbital
>station capable of carrying out a repair of a vehicle in orbit, with out
>the clumsy suits (of course this adds problems).

The biggest problem with this is that all orbits are not alike.  It can
actually be more expensive to reach a satellite from another orbit than
from the ground.  Clarke orbit is about the only place where there are
a lot of satellites in the same orbit, reachable relatively cheaply from
a single repair base... and it is awkwardly high up, and in the fringes
of the outer Van Allen belt -- a poor place for a manned station.
--
All work is one man's work.             | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
                    - Kipling           |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 19:45:55 GMT
From: David Pugh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Orbital RepairStation
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
|> The biggest problem with this is that all orbits are not alike.  It can
|> actually be more expensive to reach a satellite from another orbit than
|> from the ground.

Unless, of course, you have a high Isp OTV handy and don't mind waiting a few
months for the OTV to recover the ailing satellite. Of course, to make this
work you need a proven ion/arc-jet drive (or are willing to prove it on the OTV)
and a reliable mechanism for capturing satellites. Neither of which we have.

Then again, the OTV would be useful even without the capture mechanism for
launching satellites from LEO to whereever and then having the OTV return to
LEO for the next payload.
--
... He was determined to discover the        David Pugh
underlying logic behind the universe.        ...!seismo!cmucs!dep
    Which was going to be hard, because
there wasn't one.    _Mort_,  Terry Pratchett

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 93 19:35:36 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ron's Space Calendar?
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space

I find that I am in need of Ron Baalke "Space Calendar".  If anyone
has it on line, could you please send me a copy of it.

Thanks in advance.

Scott Miller, Program Coordinator
Rauch Memorial Planetarium
University of Louisville
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 11 Apr 93 01:25:03 GMT
From: Paul Britton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Shuttle Telemetry
Newsgroups: sci.space

Does anyone have any lists for telemetry frequencies from the Space Shuttle
when it is on a mission, and what sort of data does the orbiter send back to
the ground based tracking stations...



Paul

--- FMail 0.94
 * Origin: SATCOM_AUSTRALIA Space & Satellite BBS  61-2-905-0849 (3:714/905)

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 93 10:01:45 -0600
From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Voyager pictures
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (THE SKY ALREADY FELL. NOW WHAT?) writes:
>     Hi, I hope I'm posting this to the right group. I would
> like to get some big, blow-up prints of the pictures that Voyager took
> on its way past Jupiter and Saturn. Does anyone have any idea how I
> could come by them? I looked through the FAQ's but I didn't see anything
> relevant.

The simplest and probably cheapest source is the U.S. Government
Printing Office bookstore.  They have local bookstores in many cities,
but you can order from the central one in Washington too. Ask them for
specialized catalogues of space and astronomy stuff as well as their
general catalogue.

U.S. Government Printing Office
MAin Office
710 N. Capitol St.
Washington, D.C. 20402
[phone]

PlanSoc has some posters; in the latest *Planetary Report* I see
they've got
Jupiter/Saturn/Uranus 3-poster set $15
Neptune 2-poster set $10
Solar system in Pictures (nine little 8 x 10s) $10
Jupiter laser print $8
Uranus laser print $8

         Planetary Society
         65 North Catalina Avenue
         Pasadena, California 91106
         [phone]

Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey              | Bartlett's
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory  | Most Familiar Quotation
Bitnet:           [e-mail]  | (according to W. H. Leininger):
Internet:       [e-mail]  | "Say, that's pretty good!
SPAN/Hepnet:           43011::HIGGINS  | Mind if I use it?"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 19:24:21 GMT
From: Blair Haworth <[e-mail]>
Subject: What if the USSR had reached the Moon first?
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if,sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>    Staying off the subject, Heinlein also miscued badly in the story saying
>    that when Mike died, all the banks went back to using abacuses. Saw a
>    quote the other day that if we had to replace all the computational
>    power just used by computers in banking with humans with mechanical
>    calculators or abacuses or whatever, it would take the entire population
>    of the US working 40 hour weeks.

Correction: that was one bank, and the computer wasn't Mike, but his
"idiot son".  Note also that Heinlein's Luna was a small population,
>3,000,000, and a mainly cash economy.

Sorry, just had to ride to the defense...

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80

------------------------------

Date: 12 Apr 93 20:24:12 GMT
From: Ralph Buttigieg <[e-mail]>
Subject: What Minerals are Cheaper on Mars? than earth?
Newsgroups: sci.space

Original to: [e-mail]
G'day [e-mail]

 sdmc> I didn't see this program, but the Martian atmosphere is largely made
up
 sdmc> of carbon dioxide -- tough to get much fuel out of that.  There was
some
 sdmc> talk a while back of landing a nuclear-powered ship on Mars (a ways
into
 sdmc> the future) to electrolyze CO2 into CO & O2.  Then, you "burn" the
 sdmc> carbon monoxide in your rocket engine for thrust:

What he seems to be refering to is Robert Zurbin's Mars Direct plan. A
spacecraft would land on Mars with some hydrogen. It would then convert some
of the CO2 in the atmosphere to produce methane and oxygen. That would be
used for the return flight.

ta

Ralph

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: VULCAN'S WORLD - Sydney Australia [phone]  3:713/6
(3:713/635)

------------------------------

End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 459
------------------------------